Svetlana Aleksijevich: « Trump lacks any form of humanism »

It may seem atypical to a person who has been given the Nobel Literature Prize to discuss deliveries of military assistance. But not for Svetlana Aleksijevich. Through ordinary people’s voices, she has dissected the totalitarian system that shaped the « Soviet man » and the disasters it led to – the Second World War, the phases in Afghanistan and the accident in Chernobyl.

After Russia’s attack against Ukraine, which is her second homeland alongside Belarus, it is no longer so given to be a pacifist.

She visited Stockholm this week, in conjunction with Belarus Freedom Day on March 25, and I was given the opportunity to discuss what the war has done with the people she has spent much of her life listening to.

I start with To remind you of an interview I did with her in Minsk in the fall of 1996, two years after Aleksandr Lukashenko came to power. Then she did not have much hope that the citizens of Belarus would rebel against the authoritarian regime.

In August 2020, a popular revolt exploded to the election fraud. What happened?

– It is true that we had not believed in our people. I will tell you that just before the revolution started, I sat with some friends at my house and we discussed the prospects for a peoples. It was people from Intelligentian, ie the artistic and political elite, but no one believed in it. A week later, half a million people were out on the streets. It was shocking.

Her explanation for This shortage of confidence in the people of Belarus is that the post -Soviet « elite » was stuck in an old thinking, when Belarusier was designated as something that most recently came from Asia.

– But during the 30 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a lot changed, and a citizen society emerged. Belarusians traveled extensively to western countries. The young people were already free in their thinking and saw the world with other eyes. That is why Lukashenko banned more than 400 organizations after the revolt was defeated.

Svetlana Aleksijevich says that about 50,000 people who participated in the protests have passed the detention and prisons over the past five years. And now there are 2,000 political prisoners.

– It’s a great trauma for us, such a humiliation. But it is no coincidence that arrests continue to this day. Lukashenko sees that a very large part of the people do not support him. He cannot forgive the fear he knew in 2020, and he sees no submission in the people.

That the repression in Belarus Has ended up in the shadow of the war in Ukraine is not surprising, she believes.

– It’s so much worse, especially such a war. Although Svjatlana Tsichanuskaja (Belarus resistance leader in exile) works actively, it is difficult to keep Belarus in the eye. Every day so much happens in the world.

The book on love that Svetlana Aleksijevich started writing ten years ago (the interview work for it is depicted in Staffan Julén’s documentary « Lyubov. Love in Russian ») is temporarily paused, and a book on Belarus she has worked with for several years is constantly interrupted by all crises that occur.

– The work is ongoing, but as always it is slow. Even what has happened in Ukraine will be included, everything is connected. In Ukraine, a Belarusian military association, many Ukrainians, is struggling in Belarus. In the first place, I talk to people about the five years that have passed since 2020, about what happened to them and what they think about the future.

She risked being arrested In September 2020, was forced to flee Belarus and has since lived in Berlin. When she can return home to her country, she does not know.

That you have Ukrainian roots and were born in Ukraine must have affected your attitude to Russia’s war of attack?

– It’s something I think about all the time. We must understand that the Ukrainians not only defend themselves and their territory, but that they defend us all, all of Europe, and even Scandinavia. It may be a simple example, but if you had stopped Hitler in time, this monster could not grow strongly. And today, if we do not together stop Putin, we will have a scary future.

What opportunities are there to end the war?

– Don’t know. It seems that Trump has a very superficial understanding of Ukraine and Russia. He is a businessman and not a politician. He lacks any form of humanism, but sees politics as a successful business deal.

What do you think of the world’s reaction to the war?

– If the West immediately supported Ukraine with aircraft and really good weapons, Putin would not have been able to occupy such a large part of the country. But West is constantly tremble for Putin, especially when he has threatened a third world war. This indecision has made it more expensive for the West than if you had acted then. There is no other choice, Putin must be stopped. When he saw that the West faltered and was divided, he used it.

Russia has been silenced, she is frightened. If you go out with a placard where it says « No to the war » you get 16 years in prison

She does not want to go As far as to say that the West has failed Ukraine.

– It’s not that the Western world has not done anything. I think about what warmth of war refugees from Ukraine were met in Europe. I saw it in Germany, and I can’t say that without being teary eyed. People turned out to be higher than their governments. It was women who left the country, while the men stopped to fight. Then it meant a lot how women and children were received in Europe.

How can you explain that Putin has had strong support for the war among the Russians?

– I don’t know if they believe in it themselves, but there are those who say they defend their motherland and imagine that if they have not gone to war against Ukraine, the Ukrainians would come to them. Many seem to believe in that propaganda, and a mother whose son has fallen sees him as a hero.

Svetlana Aleksijevich is convinced that there is also another Russia, which is not Putins.

– But Russia has been silent, she is frightened. If you go out with a poster where it says « No to the war » you get 16 years in prison. It requires tremendous courage to do such a thing. Many from the elite have left Russia, they are in Berlin and other places, or they have been silenced. I myself have lost many friends in Russia, those who say « shrink Nasj » – Crimea is ours. People have become more isolated and have a harder time getting true information. Here Putin has been helped by Trump who has closed Voice of America and Radio Svoboda, it was channels who told the truth.

In the 1990s, widespread protests occurred against the Russian war in Chechnya. But not today, against the even more devastating war in Ukraine.

– It depends on the horror. I remember that several years ago I followed a poet’s fate. He had read poems at a street demonstration in Moscow. He was arrested by the police and was brutally raped with an iron pipe. The Russians lack leaders who could make successful resistance. New leaders could emerge, but it is difficult with the terror that the power holders practice against their own people.

So she has not So high hopes for the Russians, but her view of the Ukrainians is completely different.

– I can only admire this people, and I’m glad that Ukrainian blood flows in my veins. From the first day of the war, both President Zelenskyj and the Ukrainian people have shown themselves from their best sides.

How can you explain the great willingness between Trump and Putin?

-I don’t know, so many conspiracy theories are spread about KGB connections and the like. I think it is mostly about a special type of right -wing populist leader who has appeared, not only in Russia but in the world. They are the leaders of our time, and they are dangerous and difficult to defeat. They do not tell the truth to the people, but some kind of fairy tales. But people must hear the truth, even if it is bitter.

Before we part, I ask Svetlana Aleksijevich if she wants to add something.

– Yes, Western democracies must be much more determined with giving Ukrainians weapons assistance so that they can defend their motherland.

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