Mira Amaral. “We should start discussing small nuclear reactors”

How do you see the energy market in Portugal?
The energy market is coming to an exhaustion situation in the domain of renewables in the national power grid. Renewables only work about two thousand hours a year (one year have 8 760 hours) and, at this moment, getting more renewable in the network means more excessive energies than we do not need and that are further sinks prices in the gross market. And those wind projects offshore They are a complete madness because the technology is very expensive, the others are giving up and it seems that we should be the scouts of Europe to advance to the wind offshore. It’s a foolishness. What is at stake at this time, in the power grid is having schemes that allow to accumulate energy and then comes the problem of batteries that allow to accumulate excess energy from renewable sources, namely solar energy. On the other hand, we have other issues that were raised by this Iberian Peninsula blackout, which are the stability issues of the network.

Do you think we have too much dependence on renewable energies?
Putting more renewable in the Portuguese network means increasing the excess of energy that already exists in a few hours of the day and sink prices at these times.

And did we reach this level? By political will? During several governments there was talk of the importance of this bet on renewables…
It was owed to political will and with political power without any awareness of what it was doing and ended up in the fashion of renewables.

After the blackout even said that the political class is ignorant about these energy materials…
Yes, but the ministers are not expected to know, what was expected is that if they surrounded by those who knew, which has not happened.

We risk going back to having a blackout?
It can happen again and we have to be prepared to answer. For this, we need to have more centrals with system Blackstart (System that allows when there is no power in the network and no voltage in the network can tear the generators). The minister of the environment in the meantime has already spoken of something that is a good idea: to do more hydroelectric pumping plants.

When Europe again puts the idea of ​​nuclear energy again why Portugal is still on its back on this form of energy?
Because of lobby of the intermittent renewables, directed by Carlos Pimenta, who cannot with the nuclear. In fact, it affected their business. That lobby He continued with the media, continued with political power and no one even wants to hear from it. Regarding the nuclear, what is currently at stake, in my view, is the issue of small nuclear reactors, the SMRs.

Did this resistance to nuclear gain greater contours after accidents such as Chernobil or Fukushima?
This was a psychosis created by Carlos Pimenta and his group. They wanted to create in the population the idea that a nuclear center was an atomic bomb. There has been no nuclear accidents in which people have died, unlike other energies. Statistically, every year there is a dam that bursts and contrary to what is said did not die in Fukushima. What is at stake are small central and, as the English name indicates – modular reactor small – are reactors that are modulated, which can be built by modules, which are set up on the site and, as such, have a much faster construction. They are smaller centrals, adjusted to a production like Portuguese.

Some say that it is only possible to achieve decarbonization if we bet on the nuclear, at least having the goals that are foreseen in the European Union…
Nuclear and wind are the least emit CO2, where nuclear is one of the most decarbonized sources of energy.

The theme was discussed again in Germany…
One positive thing we are watching now is this lobby that It is made by the German government with the new Chancellor Friedrich Merz. I don’t know if Germany will return to the nuclear, but it is a significant advance. Before Friedrich Merz, the Germans not only ended the nuclear, but also made fierce opposition to the nuclear in Europe, making fierce opposition to the French nuclear. The Spanish government will also want to end the nuclear, but if you do it is dizzy. Have you seen what meant ending the nuclear in Germany? It has forced to use more coal, more natural gas, more CO2 emissions and Germany has greater dependence on Russian gas. If Spain ends the nuclear, it is also evident that it will have to resort to more coal, more natural gas and more CO2 emissions, because as has been seen in the German case it is not wind, nor the photovoltaic that can replace nuclear power. If this happens in Spain, we will have an even more unstable Spanish network.

Do you think Portugal anticipated when deciding to close the coal centers?
It was an irresponsibility at the time. What did you mean? Terms less firm power from the Portuguese network. People are not aware, but at dinner time there is no photovoltaic because the sun ends at 5 or 6 am and, in relation to wind, usually when dinner time also blows little wind. Statistically, it is known that dinner time can only be taken to take advantage of 7% of the wind installed capacity, then dining time it is necessary to have a firm power that has to be produced by thermal centers or by bombing water centers, hence the minister’s statements that, following the blackout, says that you need more pumping centers. By the way, all this had already said in the opinion I did with Professor Clemente Nunes to Sedes. The government has ignored us Olimpically, but we talked about the excesses of renewables, the need for firm power with more pumping centers and more biomass-central centers. We had also drawn attention that this comfort of importing from Spain could not make us forget a situation where we could have to hang up from Spain and we would have to solve the problem, but none of this was considered. From a Portuguese point of view we were totally inventive to the blackout. And see that communications and transport systems were also not prepared to work without electricity and even in the power plants that had Blackstart The starts failed. What does this mean? It means they had not been tested before blackout when in these things periodic tests should be done to see if the equipment is working.

And the conclusions around the blackout takes time to appear…
The accident did not start in Portugal it was in Spain, it is not us who have to draw conclusions. The problem is that the Spanish government is giving information to the dropper. We have to wait for the European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity, which is the Association of European Electricity Transport Operators, make a report, but it will take some time, because the Spanish government is giving data to dropper. The report by a European source will be done, but there is no such cooperation attitude of the Spanish government to disclose the data.

This issue of blackout opened doors for the discussion of knowing whether it makes sense that the electric ones are in private hands…
It is nonsense to say that, because in Spain the power grid is controlled by the state and that’s what we saw. The problem is not that. The problem is the leftist parties to enjoy to want to pull the ember to their sardines, but just show that the Spanish Iberian network has public control and that’s where the incident happened, it was not in Portugal. This is a false question.

But did it bring to the naked problems with the Mibel or showed weaknesses of the Iberian energy market?
No, this is another nonsense. Mibel makes perfect sense and makes every sense we import electricity from Spain, whenever the price of imports is lower than the varied cost of the centrals we had to put to work if we didn’t matter. What we need is to have the Iberian network prepared, what was not, as well as the Portuguese network prepared to respond in isolation if there is an accident in Spain and that can happen again. But it makes no sense to interrupt the calls with Spain. The micel can and should continue to work. In fact, it has to be extended even with more interconnections between Spain and France to also offer electricity from France, which is not right now. Instead of undermine the Mibel one should think of widening it and can only be extended if the interconnections between Spain and France are improved to have energy offers about the French side Mibel. Nowadays, we have a situation that, in terms of interconnection between Portugal and Spain, already has an excellent ability to interconnect the two countries, but between Spain and France, this interconnection is still very limited. The Iberian Peninsula is almost an energy island. The micel must be perfected and not decreased.

We even announced these interconnections with France…
This is also a story that is badly told. Everyone criticizes the French, but people forget that Macron came to Portugal in 2018 to a summit in Portugal with Sánchez and Costa and brought the head of the European Union to reinforce the interconnections between Spain and France. The French President endeavored this, only, at the time, the Portuguese government and the Spanish government, with Costa and Sánchez, did not care and did not do a Follow-up of this summit. So criticize Costa and Sánchez, but do not macron in this matter. The story is badly told, they do not like the French because there is nuclear and start attacking the French without reason.

In terms of production should there be a greater balance between the various sources of energy?
Yes, without forgetting the hydroelectric and having the possibility of putting more biomass centers. Both hydroelectric and biomass are renewable, not intermittent renewable. Usually you only think of wind and photovoltaic. As well as we should start discussing small nuclear reactors. For example, there is a lot of talk about decarbonization, but in relation to public lighting for a long time that it must have been replaced by LED, but no one talks about energy efficiency in the public sector. The project was presented, however, many municipalities have not yet done so. Another thing: if during the blackout all security and civil protection forces have only electric vehicles what happened? I could cook at home because I have a stove with gas and electricity, I never agreed to have only electric stove. It is crazy to have a society in which everything is electric.

Is there an attempt to demonize fossil fuels?
The people say that all eggs cannot be laid in the same basket. Imagine having an all -electric society and the network blackout happens again? I hope the blackout opened the eyes of good people who walked with their eyes closed.