Miguel Roured. “People who live in this costume are becoming increasingly isolated”

How do you see the phenomenon around Reborn babies? Is it a passing fashion or can it become a trend?

You may pass as many others, but I can’t do futurology. It is relevant to realize that this has come since the 80’s, but it has viral now, which shows that it is not so much to do with the fact that people are more different from what they were in the past. Now it has taken on these contours that are a little more shocking, but it has a lot to do with the issue of social networks and the viralization that comes from there. On the other hand, there is also a greater highlight to some cases that are particular. The truth is that in so many other phenomena we were also seeing this, when we talk about gender identity then there are always some radical examples of people who identify themselves as dogs or cats. We realize that these are cases that exist, of course, but they are very particular cases and that they have to be analyzed and evaluated on a case by case basis to realize what is happening in that concrete situation. I think that in this case of babies Reborn may be like this, where then we have some extreme cases, we have heard of maternity hospitals, how to buy and what is being enhanced. But I also believe that there is an economic dimension.

We are talking about a baby who costs hundreds of euros…

These are expensive things. There are some cheaper, some more expensive. But in today’s world we are increasingly finding answers, things that sell to people for some kind of emotional regulation. And therefore, this emotional dimension of people is greatly exploited, on the one hand, that then can sometimes have more difficult consequences on the other.

It was said that these babies were designed for the elderly with Alzheimer’s or for people who were suffering mourning processes…

These are studies that exist in the scientific literature, they are not very frequent, because this has never been explored, possibly because the issues have not put the way they are now going. It has been and has been used through a set of articles that are published in working with older people, especially with Alzheimer’s, and somehow was a way to keep them a little clinging to the world, to work with them their emotions, and to provide them with some kind of well-being and emotional regulation. This is clearly one of the uses for these babies. Then there are some things, which centered with professional help could serve as guidance from some mourning processes, in order to help people can express some emotions that could be more repressed. However, they can be accompanied by the difficulties in the opposite sense of people creating too large and to be able to create a kind of denial in relation to mourning and, as such, this mourning is not so well resolved. However, what motivates our conversation is not something that has been explored. I got out of search when this phenomenon began to emerge, I was trying to explore as much as possible to reflect on it and found nothing. Clearly we can take these things from what we know of others, but in relation to Reborn dolls there is nothing rigorously, which means that it is clearly a phenomenon that results much more from this viralization for appearing on social networks. We do not know if it will suddenly disappear, if you will stop talking and whether the cases that come to us, you will continue to be few or if it will become problematic, which does not anticipate. Then, of course, you will have to understand each other better why this happens. At this moment I worry more, for example, the impact of the artificial intelligence language models that now exist, GPT type and other like, and the kind of binding relationships that people create with these models. Here what we have, if you want, are some dolls that are similar to babies and, because of that, can represent the experience of motherhood without the difficulties that maternity causes, in which it does not wake up in the middle of the night, nor gets sick.

A few years ago we watched the fashion of Tamagotchi ( » pets’ electronic pets that had to be cared for and fed) but because there were no social networks did not have so much impact?

Exactly, because social networks can enhance the increase in the number of people who express these things, first because they become more visible and then because they find a community. Social networks have this particularity of creating a bubble and suddenly these bubbles give the feeling that there are a lot of people. So suddenly I am even creating this connection I find people who reinforce this pseudo feeling of suitability about this. But I am saying that, deducting from other phenomena that were enhanced by social networks. The particularity of these babies is the fact that they are very realistic, which facilitates this effect that more people can go a little further than what would be reasonable in these kinds of things.

Portugal has not yet seen cases such as those seeing in Brazil, such as simulating births, hospitals’ urgencies…

No, but a niche is always created. By the way, it is not necessary to sell many to make money and in very large countries with very large cities and communities, the little becomes a lot and becomes enough, perhaps, to feed a business like that.

But enough for a man in Brazil to hit a real baby to think it was not…

We are already talking in the negative sense of what this causes. We return to polarization phenomena, which are typical in these things, unfortunately, and that is assisted in all areas of our society. People, either positive, or negatively, are too emotionally involved with these things and end up having this kind of behaviors.

Who takes these cases to the extreme may be indication of some inconvenience?

I sincerely believe that serious problems in this kind of things are found in people who have previous problems. And when the Reborn baby arises, this binding is done because of this because people have these previous problems, how something else could arise that could have the same impact. This is not to say that the existence of babies is potentially generating pathology, it is not that, but there is a prior pathology and the babies turn out to be the vehicle or the stimulus, if you want, what form makes it evident. Now, it is evident that the more this viralizes, the more people find a community of people who have the same pleasures or the same ideas or the same experiences the easier it makes the person be carried away by this fantasy and that, of course, will always end up badly because it will cause a disappointment, will isolating the people who live for some time in this expectation that it is enough to be well. And in this case, they aggravate the previous problems. Clearly, these people need help and need intervention, as they need it before.

But whose problem became more evident…

It becomes more evident. And in a society increasingly focused on a kind of individualization, where it seems that everything that succeeds – and that’s what has been explored from a commercial point of view – are things that allow us to be more entertained alone. And freedom or autonomy is confused with the idea of ​​’I don’t need anyone to be well’, which of course, it is a mistake. Because of what is our social nature we are all different and we all naturally have different needs but, of course, that we build through others and through relationships with others. I can give the example of a friend who always has technologies first than others and I remember that when the first tablet I said meque with that I could be entertained hours alone. Often technology gives the idea and feeling that we don’t need anyone else.

Can this behavioral exaggeration around Reborn babies be compared in some cases with what is verified with pets?

I would say that we can assist pathological relationships at this level. But people are having dogs or cats and does not at least make the person feel so strange. It is evident that we can also speak perfectly of pathological relations with the animal. The difference, I would say, will have to do with the fact that many more people have animal relationships, not this level, as evident, but at other levels. This idea of ​​anthropomorphizing the animal a little and somehow having a relationship of family elements don’t worry so much, precisely because today it has more to do with the idea of ​​giving these animals this relationship. Nor should we forget that there are more people living in isolation, but the animal does not have to be a substitute of anything, as evident, but we also know it can be. However, the animal always gives us anything. The doll has more difficulty returning, but everything enters the field of fantasy and representation. The binding to an animal is, if we want, more normative than linking a doll, regardless of whether children have binding to dolls, which we call psychology transactional objects that help the child deal with moments of less emotional positivity, etc. that give them a comfort of what is their growth towards the autonomy that brings scary moments. And it is somehow that may be happening to these dolls, when these people can create this binding at a different stage of life, with different and less suitable meanings. In animals, despite everything, there is a relationship because there is, of course, an action and a reaction from the animal and the binding is easier to do. But this relationship should not be prevailed in relation to other human relationships that are always important to us throughout life. Human relations are an absolute need in little ones, then we will naturally learn to be alone and we also have to know how to be alone, but we know that we have this ability and the desire to create relationships with others and live relationships with others. If this relationship is impeding or decreasing what is my appetite to develop another kind of relationships we will put the same level of problem, as evident.

Should we be aware of what kind of warning signs?

When there is a idea of ​​replacement. The problem is always the replacement and if this leads the person to avoid being with other people, because when we talk about these dolls, this can be natural, because then there is an associated stigma. And they end up further away from others so that they can live this representation or to join only such virtual communities that have experiences similar to their own. This can isolate people to a kind of fanciful world, which turns out to be a marginalizing and increases difficulties because the more isolated we are in the world the less capacity we have to continue to develop problem solving mechanisms and to deal with what are the natural difficulties of relationships between people.