Foreign Minister Caspar Veldkamp: ‘Be prepared for further shocks’

Caspar Veldkamp (NSC) looks tired, but he talks energetically and driven. If he cannot speak, the Minister of Foreign Affairs signs with a ballpoint pen on a piece of paper: rectangles, arrows, from point to point.

It is rush hour in Europe. The Thursday afternoon that we speak to him is Prime Minister Dick Schoof in Paris for a new meeting of the ‘Coalition of the Willing‘, the countries that are willing to form a safety forces for Ukraine. Next week, Veldkamp will meet with its NATO colleagues about strengthening European defense. He still had EU-Buitenland representative Kaja Kallas on the phone. « The catching up has been set in motion, » says Veldkamp. « It is realized in the European capitals that we now have to build a strong European pillar within NATO at lightning speed. Previous American governments also indicated that Europeans should take more responsibility for their safety. But now the US shows that they are serious, that they are tired of the Trump government. »

You are very positive.

« There are raw sides in the attitude of the Trump government. I see the behavior of an old-fashioned superpower, which does not tolerate and free trade as a starting point, but take care of power, spheres of influence. I see a government that literally thinks beyond the borders. »

Trump wants to annex Greenland and Canada.

« That is what I meant, literally without borders. Where you always have to distinguish what is being said and what is being done. Sometimes Trump throws a bat in the hen house and it is unwise to respond immediately. »

Do you not take Trump’s statements seriously?

« I take it very seriously. I look very soberly at what is happening now. This is the first American government that is unfriendly to the EU. At the same time we always get the insurance that NATO is standing as politics and militarily robust alliance. »

Greenland belongs to the Kingdom of Denmark, Trump wants to incorporate a NATO ally.

« We will have to indicate that we do not agree with that. As Europeans we will have to learn to speak the language of power again. In the past decades we have started talking in terms of desires, instead of factualities. European diplomats like to give beautiful explanations in the UN context. But it turns out that the world does not automatically like our vision of power. have to do a fast pace. « 

Is it done with the old world order that, at least in a name, was based on international law?

« We are in a transition period. In the 35 years after the fall of the Wall we were in a phase of globalization and economic integration. Conflicts were only noise in the background. Now you see many dark clouds together. Frans Timmermans (party leader of GroenLinks-Pvda, ed.) Said that he never worried as well as I was at the same time. I also learn a lot from my Asian conversation partners. Ukraine can run into your Europeans, the Asian countries say to us. That gives me confidence. « 

In the meantime, the US seems to be busy with Russia.

« I also have doubts about that. Perhaps it is intended to peel Moscow from Beijing. But in my contacts with a number of American conversation partners I also notice that they believe in a multipolar world, with China, Russia, but also countries in the global south, such as Brazil and India as major players. »

‘Multipolar world’ is a favorite term from Putin. A leading role for Russia, he means.

« It is also a word that experts in the field of international relations use to describe the current world. If I speak to Indonesia or India, it has no negative connotations for me either. But the US never wanted to embrace that term, so I like Trump’s advisers. »

The Trump government now voluntarily releases the world order based on American hegemony.

« I think they have the impression that the international arrangements that have determined the world for the past 35 years, the World Trade Organization, International Organizations, the UN, have turned against the American interest. And that they now have to shake things up to conquer another place in the multipolar world. And that goes in a huge raw way. »

You say that the US will remain behind NATO. But what is the plan B if that doesn’t happen?

« It is not in our interest to organize a transatlantic break. And at the moment we can’t do without the Americans either. »

So you shouldn’t talk about it?

« It is not in our interest. Look, people don’t have to be afraid that the Russians will be at Hengelo tomorrow, but as Europe we must accelerate our deterrence in order so that Putin does not come up with the idea of ​​testing the alliance. I think we, as the Netherlands, must already start the conversation about the step by step further raising the Defensiekes.

VVD leader Yesilgöz wants to go to 3.5 percent of GDP. What do you think?

« Minister Brekelmans of Defense is currently calculating what the capacity requirements of NATO mean for the Netherlands and what price tag depends on it. »

The European Commission came up with an ambitious plan to make more defense expenditure possible, but the cabinet argued on European loans. Eventually there was a long letter to the room that actually didn’t contain nothing.

« I helped to write that letter, because we have to prevent us from tumbling in a new euro crisis, because then we will be further away from home. »

Wasn’t it a rearguard fight? The plan will continue.

« I think it is important that we have nailed the word ‘debtholdability’ to the temporary stretching of the European budget rules. I see that these kinds of words are now coming back into European texts. »

The world is on fire, but The Hague mainly talks about paying for European debts and the wallet of the ordinary Dutchman.

“Well, I see that differently. I see from the left to right the realization that something big is going on. From Frans Timmermans to Geert Wilders. Everyone believes that we should strengthen our European resilience. We must also boost our defense. But there is also a larger assignment. In the Netherlands, but also in other European countries, many people have shown the government that the government is not there for the midst of the midst of the Talloze of the Talloze. We have to repair relatives in recent years. Defense, it is also economics, education, energy, agriculture. « 

Something else: can we call Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu an authoritarian leader?

« There is much discussion and care about him in Israeli society, before October 7, 2023 and the war in Gaza. »

What do you think?

« There is a lot of discussion in Israel. »

Is it not his long-term strategy to chase away all Palestinians?

« I think that is far too short because of the bend. I am really convinced that in Israel there is still the minds of mind that their safety will ultimately benefit from a comparison with the Palestinians. »

Can you be critical of Israel as long as you are in a coalition with Wilders?

“The government program states that the cabinet strives for a two -state solution for Israelis and Palestinians. And I have condemned the humanitarian blockade of Gaza in the room. But as long as there is still a small chance of getting Israel and Hamas again at the negotiating table. To bomb, ed.) I could have opted for an indignant message on X, but I called my Israeli colleague, and with Egypt, Qatar and Turkey, who are in contact with Hamas. ”

What do you find the most alarming since Trump took office?

« The way in which the US wants to break open the current arrangements in the world. I am worried about that. And I tell you: Be prepared for further shocks. »

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